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Steve Hindalong has pretty much been there, done that with every facet of Christian music short of being an A&R weasel - and who knows, he might have started doing that by now too. Veteran drummer/percussionist of the Choir and the Lost Dogs and producer of a ton of records you very well might own (I was surprised to hear about some of mine), including the hugely successful City On A Hill worship series, Hindalong can talk about anything you want - and does, in this exclusive interview, where we corralled him after a Lost Dogs show. For your information, the Lost Dogs comprise the Seventy-Sevens' Mike Roe, Hindalong and Derri Daugherty of the Choir and lead vocalist Terry Taylor of Daniel Amos. How's that for Christian-rock royalty??
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sd: I just wanted to know, first of all, how old you are.
Steve Hindalong: I'm 44.
sd: Would it make sense for me to call you a bridge between my generation - I'm 25 - and your generation?
SH: Well, we [the Choir] were part of a second wave; we were fans of Daniel Amos and stuff like that, and then we became this second wave, and then I started producing all these bands like Common Children and the Prayer Chain, all kinds of bands that were the next generation, so I guess I've stayed pretty connected. I still produce a lot of young bands, like Cool Hand Luke.
sd: Cool Hand Luke's new record sounds so good.
SH: Well, thanks, man.
sd: It sounds even better than their first one, which you also did.
SH: Well, Marc Byrd (Common Children) helped this time. He co-produced, and he's great with guitars, and you know, I just try to help bands do what they wanna do, sort of facilitate their vision. I don't wanna make it sound like what I want it to sound like.
sd: Do you find yourself becoming the proverbial fourth or fifth or sixth member?
SH: Yeah, I guess so. I just want to get in there and be another guy.
sd: You're a multi-instrumentalist?
SH: I'm mostly a drummer, but I play a little guitar, and I do a little percussion here and there, but that doesn't have anything to do with it - it's how they play. I just try to create a situation where they can do their best.
sd: How did you wind up producing?
SH: It was a real gradual thing. I made a whole lot of inquiries; [the Choir] had always self-produced, and it's just part of my nature, sort of the take-charge thing. One thing led to another. I did a couple records and other guys would ask me and now it's pretty much what I do for a living.
sd: Where are you from originally?
SH: Los Angeles. We're all from California. Ten years ago Derri and I moved to Nashville, and I was able to get a lot of work. It's been good.
sd: I did an interview with a Canadian band a while ago who moved to Nashville, and one thing they said [in regards to the differences] was that the common question is, "Where do you go to church?" Not, "Do you go to church?" Do you find that to be true?
SH: There are a lot of churches in Nashville, but there are a lot of strip bars too. The Bible belt is known for that kind of light and shade, like everyone goes to church, but so do the Ku Klux Klan, you know? There's light and dark.
sd: What's your history growing up? Did you find music really early on?
SH: No, I never knew I'd wind up in music. I was like forty and realized, "Wow, I'm still doing this. I can't believe it." It looks like I'll have to keep doing this, because I don't know how to do anything else. *laughter* It's kinda like rowing out on a lake - what else are you gonna do after that?
sd: Did you go to school for music production?
SH: No, I was an English major, in literature. I don't really know much music theory; I just played drums in a band and learned enough guitar chords to join in the songwriting process.
sd: Was there a certain record that really hit you over the head and made you realize, "I could do this better"?
SH: No, it was too gradual. I started playing drums when I was nine years old and I don't remember not being in a band. There was no one particular influence that I can cite, but my first drum hero was the guy from the band Chicago, Danny Seraphine. I like Buddy Rich, and jazz. I liked Mick Fleetwood of Fleetwood Mac a lot. Stewart Copeland from the Police, Larry Mullen of U2...I just like guys who play good beats and serve up good music. I'm not really impressed with the real show-offy, Neal Peart kinda drummers. *laughter* I never cared about that.
sd: What about percussion attracted you in the first place?
SH: I love percussion. I've collected it over the years to use on albums, and now I'm using it live more and more. It's so subjective. With a drum set you have your hi-hat, your snare, and your kick and toms. It's the same thing so much of the time, very objective, whereas with percussion, like, "What will I shake? What sound will I use?" I like to make sounds on albums where I imagine that people don't know what they're hearing, exactly. They have to visualize something, but they're not visualizing what I'm playing, because they don't know what it is.
sd: How many pieces did you use tonight, just out of curiosity?
SH: I don't even know - thirty or forty?
sd: What was that thing you had that made a two-tone noise? I've never even seen most of what you had up there.
SH: That was a Pakistani instrument called a dumbek.
sd: Where do you find all this stuff? I don't know if you noticed, but I was in the back just looking at all this and wondering, "What is that thing he's holding?"
SH: Here and there. I find it fun to do that since I've collected so many things over the years. Like, playing here with the Lost Dogs, I've never had that exact setup before. I just took out on the road what I thought would work with these songs. It works for the acoustic music really well. It's fun because it's so creative, and I do different things from night to night.
sd: Is that what you think attracts bands to you, or you to them, for production?
SH: They usually like something else that I've produced. One thing leads to another; they hear a record I've done and like the way it sounds.
sd: Tell me about City On A Hill; how much of that was your creation?
SH: Well, I pitched the concept to the record label and landed the deal. My whole idea was for it to be a real community and have different artists singing with each other - that was the challenge that I felt most pleased that we were able to pull off, having Sixpence sing with Jars of Clay, Caedmon's Call with Third Day. That was the challenge. I tried to involve the artists creatively wherever possible. Like, I instigated Mac Powell writing the song with Fernando Ortega.
sd: Did you think it would blow up the way it did?
SH: No. I'd hoped so, and we definitely tried to be accessible more than usual. My whole history's working with bands that are fairly alternative, and there's a lot of tension. I've always said that if there's no tension in a song, then it doesn't reflect reality, because tension is an everyday experience, but there's something different about worship music, because the goal is not so much self-expression as it is to move people and draw people into worship. We want little kids to be moved, and we want Grandma to be moved. We don't wanna bother people in worship music, so sonically we tried to be more accessible; less "strange" tones, guitar-wise. So hopefully it was still cool - and who's to say what's cool? That's all a personal thing. But we definitely tried to be more accessible than I ever have been. I was surprised at how successful it was.
sd: Was it as successful as you wanted it to be, as the guy behind it?
SH: More successful than I'd thought it could be.
sd: Is there anything you wish you could have changed? I heard that the Christmas one last year was the end of the line.
SH: We did The Gathering, and that's the last one; there's four altogether, and I'm the one who wanted it to end, because that was enough, and I wanted to get on to some other things.
sd: How much of a hassle is it to round up all these people?
SH: Really, it's a lot of politics. It takes months, and it's extremely stressful, and it became increasingly so. But overall, I'm really blessed that I got to do it, and it's been great for my career. A song like 'God of Wonders' catching the wind like it did was tremendous for Marc Byrd and I, who'd never had any commercial success in anything to that point.
sd: If someone like U2 came along and wanted to work with you, would you be intimidated?
SH: I was apprehensive about working with Cool Hand Luke!
sd: Do you do live sound at all?
SH: No. I don't do engineering either. Marc Byrd's emphasis is on guitars and tones, and I think where I'm most confident is vocals. Even though I'm not a singer, I manage to get good vocal performances. I've always produced Derri's vocals in our band, and that's kinda what I'm known for around town in Nashville.
sd: How do you do it?
SH: I build peoples' confidence and give them a lot of emotional feedback. I'm very focused, and give them every opportunity to keep the intensity up at all times.
sd: Do you find yourself doing that with your own records?
SH: Um...no, the process of doing the Choir is a totally different thing.
sd: How do you bridge the age gap?
SH: It doesn't even seem like there is one. Rock music kinda encapsulates adolescence. *laughter*
sd: That's why I can't believe Terry Taylor is 54, even though I know he is.
SH: Every band I produce, I find out they're all into the same three or four or five or six records, and I've heard those records, and I know what they're trying to get -
sd: You do your research.
SH: Yeah. I hear Coldplay, and I can hear what's on tape; I can completely understand it. It's not that far removed...Coldplay sounds a lot like the Choir, you know? More like that than Cool Hand Luke, and they're saying they're into that, and I get it. I get Radiohead. It's not that hard to understand that good's good.
sd: Is there a project you're most proud of as a producer?
SH: I'm not sure if you remember, but the first worship record we did was called At the Foot of the Cross, back in '91, which was a predecessor to the whole City On A Hill thing.
sd: Who was involved with that?
SH: Mike Roe sang on it...Phil Keaggy was pretty well known. A lot of people remember Mercury, by The Prayer Chain.
sd: You did that record??
SH: Yeah.
sd: You're kidding. I OWN that record. Did you do Shawl as well?
SH: Yeah.
sd: Wow. How do you keep all this stuff in perspective? This whole rock and roll thing?
SH: It's for individuals - and I think that's what you were saying. You have to realize that if you wanna keep doing it, it has to impact on individuals and their moods, including us. You can't judge in terms of production and all that; you'll never be satisfied. If you think you need to be U2, or U2 thinks they need to be the Beatles, they'll never be happy if they judge in those terms. If you're a painter, and you spend months on a painting, and someone buys it and hangs it in their hallway, then that's your offering, and you have to be content with that.
sd: Toby Mac was in the news a few months ago saying that he thought the Christian-music market was a necessary thing, that it had a genuine place, and someone directed me to a quote from 1995, when dc Talk was on the Jesus Freak tour, where he said he didn't feel there should be a separation. And as entrenched in the Christian market as you are, what do you think?
SH: People ask me that kinda thing and I honestly don't have an answer. I haven't really thought much about that.
sd: Do you ever get criticism along the lines of "well, why don't you take a chance and work with this or that band outside of Nashville"?
SH: Not really, and I'm not really the type to pay a lot of attention to criticism anyway. Way back, the Choir used to get a lot of criticism, mean letters and whatever. Way back. And I didn't return any of those letters, didn't respond...I don't have time to defend myself.
sd: There's a still a bit of a divide at my age level between "Christian kids" and otherwise; does it matter at your level anymore, with other producers in your peer group, that you're a Christian?
SH: I'm not one to try to convince anybody - of anything. Through my music I've had a lot of opportunities to address who I am, and what I think, and how I feel. I'm not one to get into it verbally - about anything. I'm not gonna argue about politics - I have my political opinions, that I'll discuss in the van with these guys.*indicates other miscellaneous Lost Dogs*
sd: A lot of the bands I've talked to are like in their early twenties, and they barely know anything about politics. Like Cool Hand Luke - they have no idea what it's like to live a party line or have a band split up over politics or creative differences - and you do.
SH: I had a lot of trouble with their lyrics this last record out, because there was so much guilt, all the time guilt, like, "I feel bad." They're guilt-ridden. That's just huge, man, and they're solid Christians, more "devout" than me, always reading the Bible - like, get off of the guilt thing, man! God's not mad at you! *laughter from interviewer* Whaddaya you think, he's mad at you? He doesn't have time to be mad at you, he loves you! You know, there are children buried under rubble in places in this world! Cheer up, man, he loves you! Quit feeling guilty!
sd: What do you wish you could change? In the ["Christian"] industry that you're so much a part of, there are so many things I wish I could change, but I'm nobody.
SH: I don't wanna name names, but the coolest stuff doesn't sell, and the manufactured stuff does. Stuff I hate the most is the biggest.
sd: *veritably explodes*: WHY? Why does someone have to be attractive before talented to sell something? Why?
SH: The most frustrating thing is that you don't know. You know, I think Switchfoot is a great band, and I'm not surprised they've had success, and Sixpence was a great band and they succeeded...but I guess it's that way in the pop [read: secular] world, too, isn't it?
sd: Any last words you wanna say? Any projects to hawk?
SH: I would say, as a piece of advice to the young bands: all the quarreling is just a waste of time. In the end, if there was something I could have done differently, I wouldn't have quarreled. I've lost some friends over the years...in the early days it was so important to us, our success, that some of the petty quarreling that went on was just...I've seen it a lot, having produced a lot of bands, I've seen a lot of petty squabbling and bitterness and anger with young bands, and very few can survive that to do two, three records.
sd: "Our band broke up because the singer hated the rest of us."
SH: It's so typical, and it's not worth it. I wish some of the stuff [earlier on] hadn't been said. I know that now. We've been given a lot of grace, especially us four old guys; we're having a great old time.
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Steve is currently on tour with the Lost Dogs in between, no doubt, producing a ton of other work. Check out the Lost Dogs' website for the tour itinerary.
- Mike Postma
Copyright ©2005